Interview with Wayne D. Kramer on Goliath's Rants, Reviews, and Revivals Radio Show

On March 29, 2025, I had the pleasure of appearing as a guest on the above-named radio show.  It was a great time!  I had met the hosts of the show during the Lexington Comic & Toy Expo just a short time before, after they stopped by my author booth.  They asked if I'd be interested in being on their show for an interview, and of course I said yes!

In this hour-long show, we covered everything from my novels to my author journey to the writing craft to publishing to marketing, with plenty of light-hearted banter about pirates and various random things.  The tone of the interview is very casual and fun, and I really think you'll find it enjoyable.  Even I enjoy going back and listening to it.

One super-cool thing is that Heroes of Time musical tracks make their DEBUT appearance during the “commercial” breaks of the below interview video.  This includes the “Murdoch's Choice Overture” but also a couple of tracks meant to accompany the not-yet-released novel Heroes of Time: The First Ethereal in the future.  It's great stuff!  The tracks are custom-composed by Sam Dillard of SamoStudios, who also created amazing albums based on video-game music, including Chrono Cinematica, Metroid Cinematica, and Zelda Cinematica.

The below YouTube video is the actual full interview (audio), and below that is the complete interview transcript.

Transcript:

[Music]

Hello, hello, and welcome to another episode of Goliath's Rants, Reviews, and Revival right here on Forward Radio WFMP Louisville at 106.5 FM and forwardradio.org. We've got an exciting episode today! We have Wayne Kramer, author of the Heroes of Time series. And here's your host, Goliath.

Thank you so much, Yaniel. Welcome to another Goliath's Rants, Reviews, and Revival! Wayne, thank you so much for being in the studio with us today.

Thank you for having me.

All right, ladies and gentlemen, we're going to be talking about pirates—one of my personal favorites. You guys know I love One Piece, I love Jack Sparrow—Johnny Depp—I love the Pirates of the Caribbean. But I may have found some new pirates that might just beat you, Johnny. I love you, you're a great pirate, but these pirates might just hold that much more fascination for me.

So let's dive right into it today as we talk about some new pirates in the world of, well, pirating.

Wayne, welcome to the show. How are you feeling today?

Feeling great, thank you.

That's great! Thank you so much—and thank you for being here and telling us about your new pirates, which I cannot wait to hear more about.

Yeah, so the Heroes of Time series—it's a swashbuckling adventure, ancient magic, and a feisty red panda.

Love it!

So yeah, I like to describe that first book, Heroes of Time Legends: Murdoch's Choice. It stars Captain Zale “the Gale” Murdoch. He's a seafaring merchant at the top of his game. He's commissioned to find the legendary Grimstone. In the course of his journey, he comes to realize that if he finds this thing and delivers it to the client, then he'll put his entire kingdom in great danger. But if he fails or refuses the job, then his family and everyone he cares about will be in great danger. So he's wrestling with some big choices there.

Now, if you called him a pirate, Zale might say that's kind of a different class of rascal. He likes to call himself a seafaring merchant specializing in high-value cargos.

I don't steal things, I just happen to find them and they come on my ship willingly and I take them with me, kind of thing.

Yeah, sure. Right! They get there somehow, you know. And you put that on my boat! The kingdom said it was okay!

So we don't call ourselves pirates.

Like, with the name Heroes of Time and this imagery of pirate, I'm imagining like this pirate ship—like a three-mast schooner, giant sails—that's just flying through the timeline instead of, you know, coasting through the oceans. Is that accurate at all, or is that just my imagination having fun?

So, the ship is somewhat inspired by Narnia's Dawn Treader.

Yes! I love Narnia.

Yes. Okay. So that makes it a single-masted square-rigged ship.

Gotcha.

You go into like real precise language for the ship, like you're going real old school on this.

You have to. You know, you're gonna know your lore. Some kid's like, "Mommy, what's a schooner?" What? "In the book it says they got on the schooner and escaped!" Use Google.

Well, and it's funny because like, I myself—I'm not a sailor. And if I go on a boat and the waves start bobbing around, I get sick.

Oh, so it's kind of the worst thing.

What kind of pirate are you, sir?

But yeah, I would be a seasick pirate. But I definitely did my research for these books. I've even, you know, I even tapped the help of Chris A. Jackson, who is another author who has a pirate fantasy series—and he is a sailor.

Yeah!

And he actually did review my material and help me out to make sure I had the right terms and everything.

Right.

So yeah, I did take those extra steps to try and make sure things were, you know, they at least made sense to somebody who might be paying attention.

And at least that sounds good.

Oh no, definitely. The more history you can give people nowadays—the more information you can give somebody—it allows them to make those kind of decisions.

And I got to say, I love when you read a book and it gives you like tidbits of information—not to overwhelm your people with history or facts. It's like, they got into the 40 ft schooner, and people are sitting there going, "Wait, aren't schooners only 20 ft?" But like, oh sorry, 20 ft schooner. You're giving people a little bit of factual information so they can like look at it from a history perspective and go, "Okay, they're using real terminology, proper boat terminology, you know, old school world terminology."

You're not saying like, you know, "go down and get down to the mizzenmast, me hearties!"—be like, you're not going Hollywood on them, you know.

Yeah, well, plus it's my own fantasy world, so I can almost be like, "yeah, but in this world they do have 40-foot schooners."

Yeah they do. That's cool.

So let's dive backwards a little bit in this part of the show. You didn't just wake up one day and go, "I want to make a book about pirates, Mommy," and then 20 years later, "I made a book about pirates, Mommy." Like, how did this come to be? Have you been working on this for like a long time, or was this like a project you took on during the pandemic? How did this come to be, and how long have you been working at it?

Yeah, so Heroes of Time as a series was conceptualized actually well before the pandemic. So this is kind of going back to like 2018-ish.

Okay.

Just pre-pre—back in pre-pandemic days.

Yeah, yeah.

Back when things were normal.

In the world of normal.

But even before that, because I had for a long time wanted to novelize a video game called Chrono Trigger.

Okay.

And so I worked for many, many years—really starting back even like in high school, going through college—writing an epic fantasy adaptation of this role-playing game, RPG, Chrono Trigger, which was like a 1995 Super Nintendo game.

Oh yeah.

Oh okay, I remember that. Yeah, that's old school memories right there.

Yeah, yeah. But it was this great story of adventure and time travel, and it had this blend of like a medieval setting with some modern technologies.

Yep.

So you could have a kingdom and a castle, but in the houses they had refrigerators. And ferry boats were out in the water, you know. So I'm like, this is kind of a fun mix.

And I wanted to publish that for the longest time, but eventually—you know, getting the rights to do that and everything was so difficult—eventually, you know, it actually kind of still is a project that I have. I even have chronotrigger.com, and the project is still there, like waiting for the day.

But I decided that what I'd really love is to have my own fantasy series that was my own brand, my own thing—wasn't just somebody else's that I was always trying to get rights to do things with.

Yeah, that's a problem with the world of fantasy nowadays. Like, everyone's like, "Everything's been done, everything's copywritten." And I'm like, yeah, that's why we've had other guests on the show and other authors talk about being a freelance writer or being a freelance creator of your own LLC, your own company.

Because we've seen people—like, you know, one of our guys is afraid because he made a show and book similar to almost Avatar. But it's not Avatar—it's like Last Horizons meets Avatar—the Blue Monkey People meets Avatar: The Last Airbender—about a young girl who has spiritual awareness, but she's techno. Like, all her powers are from techno-organic. So she lights up like the Avatar, but because the robots in her are charging her up with plasma energy, which is now her blood.

And I'm like, that's close to Avatar, but that's not even close to Avatar. But yeah, he was afraid of lawsuits because it's so close—the eye glowing, the body glowing stuff—that it could be viewed as copyright infringement.

I'm like, people, the way the law works is you got to make it and alter it by 28% minimum. But if you make something similar, that's not copyright. That's you creating a whole new character that's similar but not even close to the original.

So you don't have to worry about that. And I think that's what you've done here.

You've taken a lot of knowledge of pirates but made your spin on it and made it yours—made it so the copyright laws, infringements, don't even touch you. Because you've made a book no one else has made yet, which is what I like about it. No one has your story, which is your story.

Yeah, absolutely. So, I mean, that's true. A lot of people say everything's been done—every magic trick, every superpower, ability, right? But that doesn't give enough credit to the creativity of the human mind.

Exactly.

I mean, every author that takes elements of that and puts it together in a different way, with their own unique spin and their own character development... and so yeah, it's always going to be unique as long as you're just not straight outright copying something.

As long as you don't call your character Aang or Zuko or Jack Sparrow. You can have a guy named Sparrow—just don't call him Captain or Jack. Done. Problem solved.

This is Max Sparrow.

Yes. This is Max Sparrow. He's Jack's cousin.

Yeah. No, but yeah, I wanted to have my own series, and so I started brainstorming this over a period of like three and a half years.

Um, which takes... takes time, guys.

And writing the first book while I was doing the worldbuilding—the first book is a book I haven't even published yet.

Oh really?

Uh, that'll be what I call the Heroes of Time main series, which will start with a book called "The First Ethereal".

Okay.

And this—what I've written so far, which I have three books out so far—Heroes of Time: Legends. So that's going to be the Legends tie-in series to the main series.

Oh, I like it. It's almost like my Captain America to my Avengers.

You got your spin-off already before you have your spin-off. Like, you're ready for it. Like, you're prepped and ready, which is awesome all itself.

Yes.

And guys, yeah, he does have copies of his books in the studio with us. I'm looking at the covers, and the artwork is so beautiful. Like, if you saw the artwork—and we're definitely going to have him back for a YouTube episode too, guys. His artwork is so beautifully presented. I think what drew me into his table was—it was pirate-esque. And it was—well, it is pirates—but when I saw it, I was like, wait a second, this doesn't have that normal piratey, cartoony feel to it that we grew up with. It's a whole new element. And the covers are shiny. They pulled me in. I was like, wait a second, I must know more about this pirate lord man. I must know more.

And that's the good thing about a good author and a good artist that come together to make a story. You draw people in with the artwork, the story, the dialogue. And I think that's what you've accomplished in your books.

Now, you said you've worked on this for about three years prior—so 2018 to about 2021-ish, I would say?

Basically, yes.

Now, has it all been you, or have you had others jump in and be like, let me help you, I have an idea for this character? Like, has it been you, your wife, your partner—like, how's it all been?

So, that initial worldbuilding and writing that first book was all me. I do have an individual who's my assistant now named Jacob, who is my alpha reader. So he's kind of there alongside me as I'm writing things.

So he's over your shoulder like, "Oh, are you sure you want to do that? Is that a good idea? Look, let's make his pants blue."

Or maybe he's your spellchecker?

No, not really. I don't need much help technically—I'm pretty good there, honestly. But he does catch that kind of stuff. But he is kind of rooting for me on the plot. He does definitely provide some ideas. He's definitely contributed some great ideas that I've incorporated in different areas. He's always been a fan. He's been a fan since back in the Chrono Trigger days.

Oh, so he's a pre-fan.

Yeah, yeah. So he was with me back then, just always kind of looking over my work and really being interested in it. So as I got into Heroes of Time, he decided he really loved that as well.

And so, you know, it went from just a kind of alpha-beta reader sort of thing to an actual full-time assistant now. So we work together actively.

That's great.

So he's the first one that reads all my stuff.

Oh, so he's all the precursor. He can sit there while everyone's waiting in line to get your autograph and be like, "I know what happens."

Yes, he can—and he does sometimes.

Oh no!

He doesn't give secrets, but he's like, "Yeah, I've read everything."

"I've already seen all that. It's all taken care of. Don't worry."

Yeah.

So that's amazing that you have someone that's really at your side for the whole thing. And that's really amazing. For our fans out there that are always listening, they always say—guys, remember, you need three people to take over the world. He's already got one, so he needs two more, and he can just, you know, take over like a pirate lord. Who else is involved?

Who says I need three people to take over the world?

That's an old—my dad used to say, "If you have five friends, you can rule the world. Five loyal friends."

Ooh.

So, uh, you need four more, apparently.

I can do that.

So right now, you're a small LLC, right?

Yes.

Okay, so yeah. Remember, guys—three years for an LLC. And remember, you can start an LLC and call yourselves anything, but make sure you have the plan ready to go.

And I'm pretty sure you guys, when you first started out, you knew that you were going to do a book series. You just had to figure out which one.

So what made you guys lead to this decision, like, grab this one—the side arc before the main arc? What brought you guys to go, "We're starting with this one first, then we'll come back to this one later"? What started all that?

Ahh... Yeah, so that kind of got into trademark stuff.

Oh, that's always—

Yep, yep. So, you know, one thing about trademark is you can trademark a series, but not an individual title.

Which is a pain in the butt.

So I had started the application for trademark of Heroes of Time I guess kind of early on, and it was such that I had to have two books out in 2021.

Oh, you had to have two out?

I had to have two books out—

Oh, in order to be a series!

—in order to be a series, by August of 2021. And so I went back and thought, okay, you know, I had a couple ideas for what could be side stories, almost like origin stories. The one that I chose, which was Murdoch—Captain Murdoch, I chose because of my personal ties to that character.

Your connection to that person—like, this is me, this is the guy I want to bring forward.

Yeah, yeah. And I thought, you know, these will be small. So that first book I wrote was like 220,000 words. It's an epic fantasy. And it's a hard one to lead into—something like that—as a first-time author.

Okay.

It's higher for print cost. It's more... it's just more commitment. People are a little bit tainted by some other fantasy authors out there who have not finished their series.

Which breaks my heart.

Yes.

Yep.

So I decided to set The First Ethereal aside and look at the Murdoch books. And so Captain Murdoch is special because he is based on a real-life individual.

Oh, so you got some real factual stuff in there. That's cool.

Yeah, yeah. So, you know, his name was Skip. He went by the name Skip—

Skippy!

So you can already see where the name, the kind of seafaring thing, comes from.

Yep.

He was a fun, interesting guy. He almost had two personalities. He had like a whimsical, goofy side, and he had the more serious, gruff, like intensely personal side.

"You hurt my family, now you must die."

Yeah, yeah. And a family guy for sure. A family man, of course.

Okay.

And he was part of our family. He married into our family, actually. And he was also a colleague. He was a friend.

This is amazing. I love this.

Very, very intertwined. So we were actually on our way to a business trip one time in the car, and I turned to him and said, "You know what? I'm making this fantasy series..." I was worldbuilding Heroes of Time—and I'm like, "I think I'd like to make a character out of you." Because he was just a funny, interesting guy—made nicknames for people, all this stuff. And I was like, "What kind of character would you like to be?" And he was like, well—and really, not with much hesitation at all—

He just went, "Yes!"

He was like, "I want to be a sea captain who specializes in cargo runs for the kingdom."

Okay, okay, well I think I could probably work that in somewhere. And he's like, "Well, I also would like this crazy little sidekick character."

The red panda.

Yeah, that became the red panda. He's like, "I want to be bad butt to the bone, and I want to be cool." And I'm like, okay, got it.

He wanted a bionic arm and everything. And Captain Zale did not get a bionic arm, but he did get a reconstructed leg.

Okay, yes. Is it a Swiss Army leg?

No, it's made out of something called graphenite.

Ooh!

Which is an in-world material.

Yep.

Yeah, which does have some significance as you get into it.

I'm loving this. I honestly love it.

So ladies and gentlemen, we're going to take a small commercial break. We'll be right back after these messages. We've got more questions for Wayne, and I can't wait to find out more. I'm going to probably buy his entire series because I'm a—I’m a bookaholic. I just can't stop reading.

But we'll be right back after these messages. Stay tuned.

After these messages... After these messages... After these messages... After these messages... we'll be right back!

[Music]

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to Goliath's Rants, Reviews, and Revivals right here on Forward Radio WFMP Louisville at 106.5 FM and forwardradio.org. Woo! I'm jazzed after that music. Uh, can you tell us a bit more about it?

Yes, that was awesome, and I love the energy. It's like Avengers meets Pirates of the Caribbean meets Megamorph. Like, that was cool.

Yeah, thank you, thank you. Yes, so I actually brought in an individual to custom compose some soundtracks for us, and that individual's named Sam Dillard. He did some awesome work with video game soundtracks—Chrono Cinematica, Zelda Cinematica, Metroid Cinematica.

The Metroid one's actually one of my favorites.

I love Metroid.

Oh yeah, and it's one of my favorites to listen to while writing, actually. So it's like—it kind of gets me jazzed for the—

Keeps you going part?

Okay, not—I mean, me personally, when I write—I—she thinks it's weird. Yanielle thinks—I—I play really—like, when I'm writing my stories and my books, I really listen to really sad, depressing music. Like, really heart-wrenching, like makes you want to cry music. And it's like—I don't know why it works, but it keeps me focused and keeps my brain going. It's so weird.

Is that for your serious scenes, or just—?

Oh no, no. Just in general. I just listen to really sad music. I don't know why, but it keeps me focused like a laser, and I don't know why it has to be. If it's happy and bouncy, I lose focus. But if I'm like sitting there like on the verge of crying, I'm like, "I can get this done. I will finish."

So generally for me, if it has words—if it has lyrics—that messes my focus up.

Yeah.

So I'm generally like—I'm either silence or some kind of orchestral music.

Yep.

So it could be something Celtic, maybe the Metroid Cinematica. Lindsey Stirling does really awesome violin tracks, so those are cool too.

But yeah, Sam Dillard did these tracks. We have a "Murdoch's Overture" that's actually on my website. And the one that you just played is for The First Ethereal.

So that's actually—this is almost like a debut of that track.

Yeah, because we haven't really even officially come out with that one yet.

We got to hear it before anyone else. And now all you out there listening to 106.5 got to hear a pre-pre-release before the release.

That's right.

So how can we find you? What is—by the way—what is your website, your Instagram, your TikTok, your X (Twitter), and all the other things? How do we find you?

Yeah, so heroesoftime.com is my website, and all the social links are on there, of course. On Facebook, it's Heroes of Time Series. Instagram, I believe also Heroes of Time Series. TikTok—Heroes of Time. I'm on YouTube as well under Heroes of Time. So yeah, but if you just go to heroesoftime.com, all the social channels are right there.

Yeah. And you—how many shows would you say you're doing right now? Because we saw you at Lexington Toy Comic-Con, and that was—I loved meeting you there. How many cons and shows have you hit since your book has been released? How many cons do you hit per month? Year? What—how many do you do?

Just a few. Just a few throughout the year so far. I have done—so Lexington Comic and Toy Convention, I've done the Indiana Comic Convention.

Yep.

And I've done Gen Con.

Oh! Gen Con, I forgot. Yeah, that's in Indianapolis, I believe.

Yes.

Yeah, in August—right at the beginning of August this year.

I think we might be there as well, guys.

Yeah? So we might be there.

Okay, great!

Yeah, and honestly, what I've been trying to do with my books—and again, this is my—like, it depends, I guess, on the book you're trying to reach. And for the present day, are you mostly trying to use the events to push the book? Are you trying to hope that your own social media would do that? Because again, I always believe that you need to go to these events to basically promote oneself. Because if I'm just on the internet—if I'm on Facebook—there's a thousand authors on Facebook. There's a thousand on Instagram.

Do you believe that the conventions do help, or are they a hindrance because you're spending money with no guarantee of selling? Like, how do you feel about that?

Well, it's hard to outsell the spend of the convention, honestly—not even because of the convention, but because once you add in the travel cost and everything...

Hotel, food, drinks...

Yeah, hotel, food, drink. Plus, I bring my assistant along.

Oh yeah. Got to pay the assistant.

Yeah. Some Scooby snacks.

Yeah. So for me, it's about the networking as much as it is the selling. And then it's a great way to build a fan base kind of quickly. I mean, you know, if I sell 200 books in a weekend—

Yeah, 200 books that are out there in the public.

That's 200 more books that are out there.

And then hopefully

Yeah they're going, "Who's the Hero of Time? You've never heard of the Hero of Time? The great Captain Murdoch?"

You're sitting there going—the guy's like, "No."

But like, "Here, I have an extra copy in my bag. Read this one." And they got some guy on the bus sharing his book with people. And that's how it goes, really.

A lot of manga fans don't know that. A lot of comic book fans—guys, you need to get your books and your comics and your everything into the hands of the people.

Look, I can sit on Facebook and TikTok and Instagram and I could blow up saying, "I have the greatest book! I have the greatest book!" But I've only sold five copies, or given away five copies to family and friends.

And you got to remember, if you don't get it into the hands of your fans, you're not going to get it out to anybody. Because if no one knows about the great Murdoch, or Jack Sparrow, or Zelda, no one's going to care.

So you really have to promote yourself.

Guys, to everyone listening—remember: three years of work. Our studios—seven years. Plus two years of being collaborated. It takes time.

You can't just hope that people find you. You have to go out to events, out to shows. You may spend a little bit of money in the long run, but in the big game plan—the small game plan, you spent $2,000. Long game plan? You made $20,000 in the long run.

But you have to be willing to make those sacrifices—lose your weekends. And a lot of people that write—and I know I have a few friends that are authors trying to get published and go out there—they're not willing to give up their weekends. They're like, "No, my book's good enough to speak for itself."

Like, okay, if your book is so good, how come I've never heard of it?

Take it to its audience.

Exactly. So like this—you know, Wayne is going to these events, guys. He's not going—like, how many do you think you hit last year? Like, in the last year, how many did you think you hit? Six? Seven? Ten?

Well, probably more like four or five for me.

But that's still—that's still more than some people if they don't go. Zero—

I mean, I know some people who really do events as kind of like their main... their main thrust.

That's their main thrust.

Yeah, and some people have done 20, 30, 50 events.

Yeah, that gets expensive if you don't have a sponsor.

If you don't have a sponsor or a book publisher behind you, that gets pricey.

Yeah, absolutely. And that can really—it's amazing how well they can get by on a shoestring budget too.

I mean, yes.

They're bringing the food with them—you know, that they brought from home or whatever.

Gotta cook those meals and take it with you.

Got a bologna sandwich at the booth, you know, in the cooler.

Hey, whatever works.

Exactly.

Now, with your book itself—and you're going again, you're going back to the spin-off from the spin-off to the main story—when do you think the main story book is going to—because we have the present right now. We have these three.

Yes.

When do you think the next one's going to be released? For the main arc, I guess you could say.

Okay, so I'm going to complete the Legends arc first.

You're going to do the whole arc? The whole thing?

Yes.

Okay.

Yes. So right now we have Heroes of Time Legends: The Healer—that's a prequel volume.

Yep.

We have Murdoch's Choice, which is considered book one, and Murdoch's Shadow, book two.

I'm actually working on a sequel—direct sequel—to The Healer, so it's going to take place between The Healer and Murdoch's Choice, fill the gap a little, because it's like a 25-year gap right now.

Oh, okay. Big gap. Big gap.

Yeah. And then I'm going to complete book three—

To go forward.

—after Murdoch's Shadow, and then that will start bringing in the focus for The First Ethereal, the main series.

So you're talking maybe years down the road?

It's probably a couple years, yeah. I would say the sequel to The Healer is probably—my expectation is it will publish later this year.

Okay.

And then Murdoch 3 next year.

Okay. So two, three years basically is your gap?

Basically.

Not too— not too devastatingly long.

Yeah, that's what I'm going for. I don't want to like commit myself into a corner, but I do believe that's doable.

Yeah. So guys, don't tie him to those words now. He said two to three—don't tie him to those words, 'cause, you know, we could have another pandemic for all we know. We don't—

Oh, do not tease Lady Luck.

Yeah, for real.

Uh, well, you never—you have time to work on your books while we're all in lockdown again.

Listen.

Right.

Right.

That was enough nightmare, you know, to last quite a while.

We don't need another one of those.

Nope. Nope. Not getting political.

No, we're not going to tie that one.

But anyway—what, so far in your book series, would you say—is there a character that both you and your partner agree on? Like, is there a character you look at and go, like, this is the—this is our—like, obviously Murdoch is your, you know, your—the hero, the icon. Is there any other character you look at and go, "Hm, this is my personal favorite character"? Is there someone that you look at and go, "I like this character more than the main character"? Or is the main character just—that's your guy? That's your man?

Oh wow.

The red panda. I already like the red panda because it's a—it's a red panda. That's automatic.

Yeah, I mean, definite favorite—I mean, Zale Murdoch is definitely a favorite for many reasons. We're talking of the books that are out now, right? So, the red panda—he goes by the name of Boomer, which is Zale's name for him. His real name is Rakakeetacha.

Rakakeetacha?

Yeah, but nobody wants to say that or spell that. It's in his language.

It's in his language, yep.

And his daughter, Starlina, is a fan favorite. And another is Fulgar Geth—he's the healer and spiritual guide that we see in Murdoch's Choice. And then The Healer goes back to his origin story.

Gotcha. Oh okay.

Which really was inspired by the fact that he became a fan favorite unexpectedly. Because I—I liked—I wrote him in Murdoch's Choice as a side character—an important side character—but people were like, "Man, he's my favorite character."

Oh man, I love him. He's so cool. He's so awesome.

Yeah. And I'm like, okay, well, let's explore that a little bit more.

Actually, The Healer wasn't intended to exist at first.

Oh, so he kind of just—

That goes back to your question about the prequel versus the series. The book wasn't intended to exist.

And what I mean by that is, I was—I was going to just write a short story to use as like what we call a reader magnet.

Yeah.

Which—to draw the readers in. Hook them in.

Draw readers, you know. Get people to sign up for the mailing list, you know, to get a free story kind of thing.

And yeah, it was going to be—alright—30,000 word book. Maybe 20, 30,000. Ended up 75,000 words.

And just 75,000. That's all, folks. Just 75.

And I'm like, you know what? It's a full novel, so let's just—I just went ahead and published it as a prequel volume.

And now I'm feeling the need—now people have said, "Oh, that's my favorite."

Oh, now you can't get rid of him. You can't kill him off.

No. No.

Yeah, they're like, "Oh, The Healer is my favorite book now."

And so I'm like, "Okay, I need to bridge the gap a little between..."

So that's why I'm now working on the sequel. So, you know, I kind of started with Heroes of Time, right? The first book I wrote—The First Ethereal. Then I jumped back to the tie-in series.

Yep.

And then I'm like, "Okay, now I'm doing prequels." So, you know, it's interesting. I've bounced—I've gone backwards from where I was intending to.

You're leaping through—I got it now. The leap through time. It all makes sense now.

I know, right? It's interesting how much power your fans can have over your writing—to influence your writing and which direction you go with things.

Yeah, absolutely.

I got to ask the evil question: are you going to do a death scene where he's dying, and then, you know, he's like, "Oh, by the way, he survived"? Are you going to do an evil death scene? Are you going to kill your fans with that? Is that how it's going to go?

I just—

We'll just have to see.

You have to go on—

Wait to find out.

"Go on without me... I'll see you down the—" Two books later: "By the way, I didn't die."

You never know.

Don't do that. No, please don't.

Ladies and gentlemen, we're going to take another commercial break. We'll be right back after these messages with more of Wayne and the future of his book series. Of course, I want this to be a movie or TV show or cartoon. I think this would be awesome. So uh, we'll be right back after these messages.

After these messages... After these messages... After these messages... After these messages... we'll be right back!

[Music]

Welcome back to Goliath's Rants, Reviews, and Revivals right here on Forward Radio WFMP Louisville at 106.5 FM and forwardradio.org. We're having a lot of fun in the studio today, guys. We are with Wayne D. Kramer, author of the Heroes of Time series, and we've been learning about his books—the past, the present—and now we're going to jump right over to the future with Wayne and your host, Goliath.

Thank you so much, Yanielle. And ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to 106.5 and Goliath's Rants, Reviews, and Revivals.

Wayne, so I got to ask—'cause the composer—that, so these are all written by the same composer, correct?

Yes.

I love it. I love the energy. I love how they just—I—I'm—I'm looking at the book, I'm feeling the energy of this, and I'm like, it just feels like this belongs. Like, it's so perfect. You guys got a great composer. That was Kayne's theme?

Kayne's theme.

Kayne's theme, yes. Oh, I love it. So it's another one for the upcoming book The First Ethereal.

Yes.

Kayne being one of the main characters from that book.

Yes.

Kayne. K-A-Y-N-E.

I know some books do this—I have seen this before in other books. I'm not sure if you're going to do it—they do have soundtracks where you can actually have a QR code at the bottom of the page saying, "Play song in background when hero enters." Like, are you going to do anything like that? Because I saw it in a few book series and thought it was the coolest thing. You have your phone, you scan it—like, "as Kayne enters a room, like, dun-dun-dun-dunnnnn..." Like, the book has music.

I'm not sure if you're going to do that, but—

I hadn't planned to.

It's starting to become more popular—

But I think it's a really awesome idea.

I have heard of that.

Yeah, I've heard of that, and you know, I think that is a cool idea, honestly.

I just love the energy that it has. It just keeps getting better and better.

But uh, where do you see yourself going in the future? I mean, I'd love to see this either as a cartoon, a TV series, a live-action, a movie. I think from what I've gotten so far, from what I've, like, dived into the books—I'm already loving it. I'm loving the characters, the development, the plot. Where do you want to go with it? Where do you want this to wind up?

Oh, absolutely. I mean, you know, for me it's a brand, right? Heroes of Time is a brand, it's a series. And so—books, audiobooks—we're already in audiobook phase now.

Nice!

Okay. And I am definitely into the production stuff, right? So I—you know, we've got single-narrator audiobooks. We're actually working on multicast audiobooks.

And to me, we're kind of just stepping up closer and closer to that TV/film area.

Yes!

Which is where I would love to be. You know, when we were in Lexington, I actually got to meet a couple of the Power Rangers.

Yes! I love—

Oh, they were so nice.

Yes, yes.

And so, Charlie Kersh, Yellow Ranger—she was fantastic. She may actually end up being one of our audiobook actors.

That'd be amazing. She seemed really nice.

So sweet. Super nice.

Yes. And Michael Copon—the Blue Ranger.

Yep.

Or one of the Blue Rangers.

Well, one of the many Blue Rangers. There have been many Rangers.

Rangers.

He was super cool. And a producer—a movie producer.

Yeah, it's amazing what happens. Like, you get a lot of older-school celebrities that were in the limelight—Power Rangers, Digimon, Pokémon, Yu-Gi-Oh, all that—and they wind up going, "You know what? Acting was great. I did 10, 15 years, I had a great time, but I don't want to be an actor anymore."

And I'm like, "You don't want to be—?" I would never give that up, personally.

But when you go to these events—and guys, it's all about the networking again—you meet a Power Ranger who's now a producer. You meet a Power Ranger who's now a voice actor. You meet a Power Ranger who wants to be a publicist.

You don't lose by meeting these people. You now have developed three connections to people that go, "I love your book. I'd love to participate. I'd love to publish. I'd love to sponsor."

That's what it's all about—going to those places and meeting those people. That's the networking Wayne is talking about.

So this is a great opportunity to give another shout-out to Lexington Comic and Toy Con.

We love you guys. Keep bringing us back.

We had a great time there. We really appreciated the opportunity to go and cover your event.

Um, this is, uh, part two of our coverage of the con on the radio air.

Yes, it is. So thank you guys again so much, Lex Con. We'll see you guys next year.

But so Wayne—where, like, do you want—now in your personal belief, do you want cartoon? Do you want live action? Do you want—or do you want a little bit of everything?

Do you want—

I would personally envision this as being a live action.

Okay. Okay.

That's—you know, I mean, I'm sure it could be done well in many different ways. But um, if I just had my personal preference, I would say live action films.

Okay.

But I would definitely look at any opportunity, you know.

Of course, of course. You start out as a kids' cartoon show that gets a little edgy, and then they bring you up like, "Hey, it was a great cartoon, now we want to do live action."

You—I mean yeah, you gotta start somewhere, right? I mean, you're not going to start with Steven Spielberg or Peter Jackson and boom.

I mean, you know, we could walk—we could walk out of the studio today and you could bump into Steven Spielberg. You know, he's our next interviewer, I'm just saying.

By the way, Steven, we still want you on the show if you're listening.

Yes, we do.

But yeah, I—I definitely think that this could be in any format. Whether cartoon, live action, you know, series, TV, movie series—I think with your great writing, like, you have done a great job portraying your characters and your build and your depth, that no matter what they publish this as, I think it's going to be a smashing success. Whether it's animated, live action—I think you've got such—you've got lightning in a bottle, as they would say.

And I think that this is only going to grow for you, because you've got, like, the next six books, the next ten books—like, you're ready. Like, you're ready to get all this rolling. And it's amazing how you've prepared for this. You didn't just, like, throw one book together and then take two years off, and your fans are sitting there going, "Well, I don't know what I'm going to do now. The book doesn't come out till next year."

Like, you've got this all planned out. So you've already got next book, and the next book, and the next book ready to go, which is amazing.

Yeah, well, then I keep adding books in between that I didn't originally plan.

"Oh, we're not done with book two yet—we need book three! But we haven't finished book two yet!"

Yeah. But I know for sure the Legends—this part of the Legends series, Heroes of Time Legends—is going to be five books.

And then it's main series time. Then it's the—the 42-book series.

That's the—that's the long one.

Oh, come on now, don't—

I mean, you never know. Just saying. You—you never know.

You never know.

Um, how long do you think the book—so you're going to have five for this one. How long do you think the main book is going to be? Are you going to go more than 10? Less than 20? Less than 10? What are you feeling?

So it's loosely plotted out as a six, possibly seven-book series.

Okay.

Of the main epic fantasy series.

Five, so you're hitting about 11 altogether so far.

Yeah, yeah. But I am sure that will shift around as we go.

Yeah. Are you going to—just because I've seen a lot of authors start doing this because some of those end books from all the big names out there—are you going to do like a final book and it's going to be part one and part two of the same book because it's so epically big? Or are you going to try to keep it, like, manageable and swallowable?

Oh, you know, it's a good question. Because like, even the first one that is already written—The First Ethereal—at 220,000 words, I mean, some people have suggested maybe that should be split into two books. Book one, part one; part two.

But there's definitely a fan base for those longer books.

I mean, I've read all—

I agree. I am—I among them.

Yeah, I mean, look—what, Harry Potter is like one of the—I think like it's the Chamber of Secrets or—which one is the biggest one? That big thick one?

Is that Prisoner of Azkaban?

Order of the Phoenix.

That's—that beast.

And I'm like, when I first got it, I thought, "Oh, this is part one, and there's going to be—"

No, this is the whole book.

Yeah. Whoa. This is—this is a big book.

Yeah, and J.K. Rowling was like, "Well, I challenge you to tell me what I should cut." You know, it's like—it needed to be that long. Sometimes the story just needs that kind of breathing. It needs that depth.

But yes, speaking of—I'm in the middle of reading Order of the Phoenix right now.

She's actually—

But that—that is—I love it. Again, the energy you have.

Now, are you going to—like a lot of people I've seen—we look at Hazbin Hotel and some of the other nerd things. Are you going to try to take as much of your team with you—your composer, your second-in-command, your—like, are you going to try to take as—like, your artist, obviously, that's drawn the covers for the books—yeah, are you going to try to take them all with you as you go up, is the question? Because a lot of people are unwilling.

I've seen people, like, drop their co-founders and stuff like that, and it's like—it's kind of heartbreaking. But what are you feeling like in that situation?

Oh yeah, I love my team. I have put together a fantastic team already.

My assistant is definitely in for the long haul.

My illustrator, Jade Zivanovic—actually out of Australia.

Oh wow. So they're on the other side of the world.

Yeah. But excellent to work with. She's really—I can see even the improvement in her skills since we very—since the very beginning when we started.

But she's—she's got a diverse art style. She's actually done my children's books as well.

Oh cool!

Penny Pangolin series.

Yes! I thought those were adorable.

Yeah, so I mean, you can see a completely different art style—the children's book style—so you can see that very diverse style.

Yeah. I think it's really gorgeous. I loved it.

Yeah, so she did the children's books, and she did the covers for the Heroes of Time series and the back cover art, which we also have used on, like, t-shirts.

He's wearing, actually, the t-shirt in the studio, guys, and it's really cool looking. Like, it's—it's on the book, it's really graphic—not like scary—but like, it's there. It's like edgy. And you look at the shirt and it's also there, and it's kind of got that, like, really cool vibe to it. You're not sure what's going on, but you're looking at it going, "I must know more about that image, that shirt, and who that person is."

Like, it definitely draws the eye in, which is a captivating part of artwork that makes you go, "I need questions, and I have answers, but I want more questions than answers."

So is that moth really significant to the story?

Yeah, so it's a white butterfly, and it's kind of how the powers of Fulgar start to unfold.

Okay.

And it is sort of a symbolic thing for him as he progresses in his young life, where as a child, he heals this butterfly's wings.

Oh...

He just puts the wing right back on it.

He just reattaches and goes, "You are healed"?

It's like an act of faith and an act of his power as a healer, and he just kind of does it without even a second thought. Like, he just knows it's going to happen, and he does it.

And the butterfly flies away.

Flies away.

Oh my God, I love that.

And then, without giving away things, you know—

Sure, sure, because you don't want to give too much of the story away and people be like, "I already know what happens."

Yeah. Well, it becomes—you know, that butterfly makes appearances at various times in his life.

So it's a continuing mini character.

Oh, I love it.

And it's almost like when he sees that, then he kind of knows that this is the direction that I should be going. I'm doing the right thing. Something is significant here—that sort of thing.

Gotcha. "Captain, which way do we go?" "I don't know. Butterfly."

From Brave—that kind of guide you to the right answers.

Does he ever point out the butterfly to anyone else? Not to give too much away, but he's like, "Look! Butterfly. Follow it."

Yeah, I guess he's asking kind of, can anyone else see the butterfly? Or is it so special to him, like he sees it only?

Yeah, like everyone—can everyone see the butterfly?

Well, it tends to appear at moments when he's the only one around.

Okay, so it's a special—very special butterfly.

Very special, yeah.

But it's not like invisible to any—you know, if somebody else happened to be there.

So no one else just thinks the captain's crazy when he goes, "The butterfly."

Right. "You're seeing ghosts again, Captain."

"Captain, are you okay? Do you have the scurvy?"

Captain be like, "No, there's a butterfly in my chambers."

"Sir, we're in the middle of the ocean. There are no butterflies out here."

Right...

"Uh, guys, I think the captain's lost it. We need to get back to land."

"Captain's looney again."

So I love it. I love the energy.

With the whole book series basically coming to, like, you know, possibly a whole 11-book series—do you see yourself, after the whole thing is completed, doing a new series after you're done with it? Or is it going to be like, write the 11 books and then, "Okay, I've written 11 books, I'm good, I'm just going to take all these"—or is there a goal for down the road for a new series? Is there anything that you could let us know that could be in the possible works?

He said five-book series—

Well, five plus the other six, so that's 11.

So five for Legends—here's the Legends tie-in—and then the six for the main.

Roughly six for the main, yes. Eleven total.

Very well.

So do you see yourself doing a whole other book series, or are you going to just love this to death until, you know, you are long and gone and dust?

Right now, I'm loving these to death.

Okay.

Yeah, excellent.

Very, very focused on the Heroes of Time series—not thinking about really anything else. Nothing else has come to me in terms of fantasy. Maybe more stuff on the children's book side, but yeah, I'm very focused on Heroes of Time. That's definitely going to occupy me for years at this point.

Seventy years old and you're like, "I have an idea for a prequel to the series of time!"

Oh man. Yeah. So yeah, I mean, I'm probably going to be mostly looking at ways to just continue to massage and build and work this world that is Heroes of Time, because I think that there's a lot of potential there. You have the worldbuilding—you just have that depth in one time period, but also over multiple time periods. So there's a lot to work with.

I love it. Now again, besides the TV and the movie and all that, I see this as a board game. Like, I can see—from what I've gotten from the story so far—I may have just inspired you to make a board game, but I think this could be a fun RPG-like minigame, like traveling the world, collecting pieces of a game puzzle, and then, like, first person to collect all the magic runes or something like that.

Is there anything—like, did I just put that thought in your head now? Is there any goal to make a board game?

Oh, I—I would love to have games. Absolutely. No, I mean, we've thought of, you know, like a D&D spin on this.

Okay. D&D book, basically.

Yeah, or campaigns, you know, based on it. But you know, in the book that I'm writing right now—the sequel to The Healer—I actually have integrated a board game in the story.

Oh, that's cool!

That I—you know, I based it off of a couple things in real life just to get some rules basis, and then modified a few things. Even kind of like printed out a board for me to use as a reference as I was writing it.

So early in that book, you'll actually see a game referenced that's an in-world game. Tabletop game.

Like in Pirates, they're playing Pirates' Keep. They're playing the—the—the slave dice and stuff like that. Like, "How many years are you wagering?" "15 years." Like, you actually made a game in your book!

What?

Yeah. On the Flying Dutchman, they don't have anything to wager, so they wager years of slavery to the Flying Dutchman. So it's like, "I wager 15 years!" "Yes! I'm getting out 15 years early!" "Oh crap, I lost 450, I'm in trouble."

That's a high-stakes game.

Yeah, it's a very dangerous game. "How long do you want to be enslaved to the Flying Dutchman?"

But that's cool. We definitely should talk about that more.

Ladies and gentlemen, we'll take one more commercial break. We'll be right back, and we'll be back to wind up with Wayne one more time. We'll be right back.

After these messages... After these messages... After these messages... After these messages... we'll be right back!

[Music]

Hello, hello, hello! Welcome back to Goliath's Rants, Reviews, and Revivals right here on Forward Radio WFMP Louisville at 106.5 FM and forwardradio.org.

If you're just tuning in now, we are wrapping up an interview with Wayne Kramer for the Heroes of Time series. And again, thank you so much.

Yeah, it's been a lot of fun. We've got a lot of good questions and content.

And uh, back to your host, Goliath.

Thank you so much, Yanielle. Wayne, thank you so much for being with us, and again, thank you for sharing the awesomeness of the synopsis of your book, the story, the ideas, your future of where you think this is going. And I really hope it becomes movie, TV, cartoon—heck, I love it all. And the board game idea? Love that. I can't wait to find out more about that.

Is there anything you can do and tell our fans in the long run? Because, you know, honestly—we uh—how do we—first of all, how do we find you again? What's your website?

heroesoftime.com

And that's pretty much for all your social medias?

Yeah. If they go to Google and type in Heroes of Time, you're probably the only ones that have that, you know—LLC.

Yeah. Yeah, I mean, you know—heroesoftime.com, type in Heroes of Time books, Heroes of Time novel, whatever—yeah, it should definitely come up.

Sounds good, sounds good, sounds good. And now, forget—like, as another author myself—I'm not as big as you or as cool as you, I've been working on my book steadily and I've been self-publishing, which I know takes a lot of time. It takes a bit of a beating on your own soul too. What words of inspiration can you give to our fans and followers?

Like, the—you know, those three years you were writing something—some Murdoch, somebody kept you going. The red panda. What made you look at this and go, "Hey, I can't give up. Hey, I'm going to complete this. I'm going to see this through." Because I mean, there have been many times I look at myself and go, "I'm quitting. I don't want to write anymore."

What can you say to that effect to our fans and followers?

Yeah, for me, I've always been motivated by getting to that finished product. I mean, you know, I have published some books already, but I know—I just remember even the feeling of publishing the first one. Feeling that book in your hands, seeing that story actually in print.

Maybe it doesn't become an overnight success, but it's there, and it can always happen. Focus on content first. Make it the best book it can be. I would say one of the mistakes that I made in the beginning was trying to expect Murdoch's Choice to become this sensation—

Smashing in right off the bat!

—on its own, yeah, and then trying to do a bunch of marketing and stuff behind it. But it's really, really tough—nigh impossible—to actually make a positive return marketing just one book.

Hit the ground—your first thought was, "Okay, I can have a book that's going to hit the ground running and it's going to just catapult into the others." You had to take that time and go, "Hey, I need to get this out." But I was hoping—like, in your mind, you were like, "I'm hoping this hits the ground running."

Yeah.

But your reality set in. You were like, "Okay, I know what needs to be done. I know that I can't just..."

Now, if it did—that's a—that—some people do hit the ground running. They do. And then they kind of slam down. You hit the ground running a little bit, and you kept going because you got three amazing books out—for the Murdoch—for the whole series so far. And you've got children's books.

It kept you going and kept you motivated that this was not the end-all, but it's going to help you get to the end-all.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean—and obviously it's just something that I have wanted to do for so many years. You know, even going back to that Chrono Trigger novel project—wanted to publish. I've got stories that need to get out. Things that I want to tell. And I'm all about getting to that finished product, that finished series.

Yep.

And just the satisfaction from having that. And then once you have that finished series—you know, if it's three or five books or whatever—one book, you know, anything.

Yeah.

Well—but as a series, then things like the marketing and the time promoting it, going to events—all these kinds of things start to make a lot more sense because you've got a lot more read-through to work with.

And you've got more—and you've built your fan base a little bit.

So someone might go to your table and be like, "Oh my God, Murdoch's Choice! You know, The Revenge of Murdoch." Be like, "Have you heard of this series?" Be like, "Yeah!"

This is the thing we raved about—Lexington Comic-Con earlier—which has become one of our favorite shows.

Oh, I love that show so much.

And this year, I absolutely loved—this was only my second year doing a table—

Oh, okay. Cool.

Yeah, at that show. But already I started to have people—there’s one in particular that I’m thinking of—come up to me and been like, "I’ve read the books. I’m actually in Murdoch's Shadow now." And then it wasn’t a sales pitch. It was—we were standing there talking lore back and forth, talking about the characters. And she’s like, "Oh, what are you doing to me with this character?"

And I was like—it was so cool to do that, to experience that. I love it. I really do.

So ladies and gentlemen, thank you so much.

Wayne, thank you so much.

Yanielle, thank you so much, as always, for being here.

I got to say, guys and gals, you got to check out the whole book series. Go to their website, check them out. I promise you, you will not be let down. And I—I can’t wait to get more into it.

Wayne, again, thank you so much.

Yanielle, as always—

Thank you.

Thank you, guys. We'll catch you later!

See you later!

Bye!

[Music]